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sgareversebang2015-01-30 06:14 pm
A New Bang!
Hello everyone – your mods have been thinking about the SGA Reversebang, and we wanted to tell you our ideas and get some feedback.
We still want to have an annual challenge that offers the chance to create a good-sized fanwork (art, fic, etc.), but we’d like to manage that differently.
There was some feedback during the last round in 2014, and your mods have had some thoughts, based on the inherent difficulties with the Reversebang’s structure when pinch hitters are needed. These are the issues that have cropped up, and our suggestions.
- Some people thought the 10,000 word count minimum for fics was too long and we should drop it to 5000.
- Your mods are keen to move the challenge to the AO3 for final posting, as coordinating many different people posting to DW and LJ is pretty difficult. We’d provide clear instructions for AO3 posting and tech support if anyone new to AO3 had problems, but it does get rid of the html formatting issues, and makes it a lot easier to do links between primary and complementary works. So the organizing, sign-ups and claiming would still happen on Dreamwidth (with admin posts and notices mirrored on LJ) but the final works would be posted to AO3 (to a specific Collection for the Bang).
- As mods, we also want to suggest making it a more varied Bang – not just about art and stories but including almost any other type of fanwork people want to do. This is a structure that works really well in some other fandoms and it adds variety and diversity, and makes it easier to manage pinch hits because they don’t all have to be 10,000-word stories, which are really hard to pull out of a hat at the 11th hour (speaking from sleep-deprived experience here!) We’d need to change the challenge’s name if we do this, and create a new site for it, linked to the current Reversebang site.
- The way this new challenge would be organized is in two stages. First there’s a “comment party” post put up by the mods on Dreamwidth that calls for people to respond who want to do a more major or “primary” work – could be art, fic, a vid, a podfic, a major craft project, etc. etc. The creator planning a primary work would give some details about their idea – a brief summary of the type and focus of an artwork, or some details about the fic they plan to write, or their amazing plan to build a macaroni sculpture of a puddlejumper. It doesn’t require any of the primary work to be completed, but you do have to decide on a project and describe it in enough detail to get others interested in doing complementary works. Each of these primary post comments then becomes a focus for others to reply (in the same thread) who are interested and want to create some sort of complementary work – again with a wide variety as to what type of complement that might be (fic, art, a vid, a knitted P-90, etc.). So the party post is for ideas, chat, squee, and for people to join in around a primary work. Sometimes there’s a small team of people doing various complements for a primary work, and sometimes it’s more like the Reversebang with a primary work and one main complement being planned. You can see an example of this in The Losers fandom.
Then once the party post has had time to gather in a number of primary creators and their planned complement-makers, there’s a more formal sign-up post – initially just open to the primary creators who give pretty much the same information about their planned primary work – maybe firmed up a bit after the interactions of the party post. We’d also want people at this stage to say whether their work would be gen or pairing-centered and to give the usual warnings as for the Reversebang (they might well already have mentioned this in the party post, but it’d definitely be needed here). A bit later, these primary works posts are opened up to complementary creators to add a comment making a commitment to create a complementary work. So that’s the more definite sign-up post for everyone, whereas the party post is a looser brainstorming place and doesn’t commit people to producing a work. All of this would be happening on Dreamwidth – it needs to be on one site, as otherwise it’s too confusing. - Your mods would also make it clear what sort of minimum size is expected in a primary work or in a complementary work. Your mods’ initial ideas for this are in this Table about the size and variety of works. You can offer to do more than one complement, across more than one primary work.
- The other thing to figure out is when to run this new SGA challenge. We’re going to poll you about that part but it’ll be somewhere from July to September.
So, a lot of new ideas and a few things we want to ask you about – here’s the poll!
The Reversebang's likely to change to a new model as above:
I would definitely want to do a primary work
8 (21.6%)
I would definitely want to do 1 or more complementary works
7 (18.9%)
I might want to do a primary work
19 (51.4%)
I might want to do a complementary work
18 (48.6%)
I'm not interested in taking part
0 (0.0%)
I have other questions or issues with this which I'll put in a comment
4 (10.8%)
I don't want to join in as a creator but I like the sound of these ideas - go for it!
3 (8.1%)
I just read and look at the art, and I don't like this - leave it as is
1 (2.7%)
The new challenge wouldn't just be a "Reversebang" so it'd need a new name - here's my suggestion! (if you suggest more than one name, separate them with semi-colons)
The "comment party" and sign-up posts leading up to the new Bang would take about 3 weeks, then there'd be a further 3 months for works to be created and posted as final drafts. After that there’d be another 3 weeks before the go-live. It’d work for me if the final go-live on AO3 happened in:
July
9 (29.0%)
August
19 (61.3%)
September
15 (48.4%)
Some other or more specific time-period which I’ll explain in a comment
0 (0.0%)
I've seen the proposed table of different types of primary and complementary works:
That looks fine
11 (31.4%)
For a primary fic the minimum word count should be 10,000 words
6 (17.1%)
For a primary fic the minimum word count should be 5,000 words
13 (37.1%)
I don't care what the word count minimum is for fics
6 (17.1%)
I have other suggestions which I'll put in a comment
3 (8.6%)
The "comment party" and sign-up posts would be on Dreamwidth:
Great – Dreamwidth's what I prefer
12 (33.3%)
Dreamwidth's okay
24 (66.7%)
I won't take part – I only use Livejournal
0 (0.0%)
I can use OpenID to join in on Dreamwidth (the mods will explain how)
0 (0.0%)
Final posting of works would be to AO3. (What if you’re not a member of AO3? AO3 has temporarily ceased accepting new members from the automated queue, as an antispam measure, but your mods can still give you an invite code which WILL be accepted):
Yay! - I much prefer using AO3
20 (57.1%)
I'd have posted to AO3 anyway so that'll save me a post
24 (68.6%)
I haven't joined AO3 yet and despite what you say I'm worried I might not be able to enroll
0 (0.0%)
I dislike using AO3 so I won't join the challenge
0 (0.0%)
I've got a different issue that I'll put in a comment
1 (2.9%)
Stargate fandoms aren't as big as they used to be - should we be more inclusive?
Sure, make it an all-Stargate Bang (SG1, SGA and SGU)
18 (50.0%)
No, I just want it to stay an SGA Bang
5 (13.9%)
It can be for SGA and SG1 works, but not SGU
4 (11.1%)
It should focus on SGA, but SG1 and SGU are okay in crossovers
13 (36.1%)
I'm going to discuss this in more detail, in a comment
3 (8.3%)
Thanks for giving feedback! Feel free to ask other questions and raise anything else, in the comments.
no subject
I love that you guys have new ideas and a new format and a fresh structure. However, I don't think it has anything to do with the SGA Reversebang. This feels like its own new fest -- which is great btw -- but I don't see any connection to the Reversebang, especially since you want to change the name and basically everything about it. It's a new thing, so put the Reversebang on hold for a year (or perhaps someone else might want to run it?), and open up a new fest.
I like the idea of hosting it on AO3. I like the idea of a party post, although what happens if everyone loves your idea on the party post but no one actually signs up for it on the sign up post? Are you just SOL? Because it's a totally new fest, I wouldn't mind at all if it was SGA/SG1/SGU.
I'm intimidated by your spreadsheet *g* I think forty songs for a fanmix is outrageous. I'm not dismissing your ideas here; I'm not understanding something, maybe? Each team is centered around an idea/concept? Or a fanwork? (Or both?) I feel rather uncreative asking this, but how might one write a fic based off of metalworking/macaroni castles, etc?
So, right. I think this should be its own separate fest, without a link to the reversebang, and therefore without the set of expectations that one might have when signing up for a reversebang (ie, longfic based on art).
no subject
From what I've experienced, most of the people who express definite interest in doing a complement in the party post do sign on, but we'd also have a guarantee that all creators would get a minimum of one complement.
The spreadsheet is totally stolen from elsewhere so it may well contain weirdnesses which is why we need feedback to fine-tune it. I assume by outrageous you mean that's too many tracks required for the fanmix? I don't make fanmixes so I wouldn't know. How many tracks would be a reasonable number for a "primary" project, do you think? 20 songs? (Thinking about how much time and effort a long fic would take to write, or a long podfic to record and edit, or a detailed artwork to finish).
Yes, each team is centered around a primary fanwork. That fanwork will contain various things to inspire people making complements. But the people making complements might not be inspired by the same thing so there's no overall theme for that "team", although the team's generally named after the primary work. So, say Busaikko's art from the last Reversebang was a primary in this new Bang - it would give rise to a team called "Team Space" (the 5 artworks of SGA women against space backgrounds). For complements, someone might write a set of 5 short AU fics setting the women back in the C19th, and another person might do a fanmix with a couple of tracks representing each artwork, and someone else might write meta about women in Stargate canon, and in the history of science. Linked, but not necessarily on the same theme. People can be as varied and creative as they like.
As to "how might one write a fic based off of metalworking/macaroni castles, etc?" - I'm sure it's possible! Like I said, the complement doesn't have to be a literal interpretation of the primary work. It's more like the complementers riff off the team's central work, rather than faithfully interpreting it in some definitive way. I've certainly seen it in reverse, where a primary fic led to a complementer making jewelry for one of the characters, and I've seen knitted complements, although sadly, no one's done the macaroni sculpture thing yet. :)
no subject
What I think constitutes a Reversebang is an exchange of a primary-size artwork for a primary-size fic. So I'm still very much against equating this new mix of a free-for-all and a Team Bang with a Reversebang. I'm liking Gangbang more as a title for it tho *g* Crew bang? Team... Explorers. Space nuts. *snorts*
...no one's done the macaroni sculpture thing yet. :)
Yes, I'm sure it's possible too! I should have been clearer that I was addressing that part of my comment in the construct of a reversebang, where the metalwork/castle was the art, and then 10k was expected based off of it (as opposed to a looser inspired-by complement of it). Ditto the 40 songs for a fanmix -- if it's for a reversebang, that seems like way too much as most fanmixes tend to range from 8 - 16 songs, basically not more than you'd find on a standard album. But for a primary fanwork... well, no, it still sounds like a lot. Maybe 20, with a cover?
* As opposed to participating in a challenge that was not exchange-based and everything was clearly laid out indicating it was not primary for primary, in which case I would be thrilled to have *anything* created that had been inspired by my primary fanwork. :)
no subject
And I think we're clear that a new Bang challenge wouldn't replace the Reversebang - it'd be a different thing. We've posted about it here as it's the same mods coming up with new ideas, and as we were thinking that people might start wondering what was happening with the Reversebang for this year. - cheers, mific (SGA Gangbang? OMG...)
no subject
Oops, I thought that's what this post was for, gauging interest and hashing out some of the details. Sorry for dialing up the INTENSITY. *g*
Pretty much everything I know about fanmixes I learned from
Looking forward to whatever it is you guys decide on.
no subject
This is pretty much exactly how I feel. Like, if it's supposed to be SGA RBB v2.0, I'm okay with "all Stargates but SGA has to be main / an SGA character has to be the main character if crossed into another show" - but if you want absolutely equal access for all Stargates, it should be a new fest that is perhaps "hey sga rbb people, you might be interested in doing this, too" but isn't "this is the replacement for the rbb." (personally I'd be interested in both, if they were sufficiently spaced not to overlap much or at all and otherwise fit into my life.)
If you are looking to find a way to make the RBB open to more creators, I don't see why you couldn't have an official period after the reveal of the finished art and accompanying stories where people can create additional Things for the original pair - here is where I'm seeing the podficcers, icon makers, knitters, etc doing their thing and then having it posted on the community in a sort of second reveal, with lower minimum requirements and no real need for formal signups and nagging about due dates though also nothing saying that couldn't happen if that's preferred. That, to me, is more of a RBB2.0 - keeping the original concept but opening it a bit more rather than being as different as proposed.
If you're looking to be sure every art gets something and just the lowered word count for pinch hits isn't enough, could you push back the due/reveal date to allow pinch hitters more time? (I think someone may have said that in another comment here, too.) There's also the idea in the paragraph above; that would allow for other creations to be made for the main art even if the longfic never happened, which is a decent backup plan and still has the artists getting something made specifically to their art, and there's nothing saying someone wouldn't write a longfic during that period!
no subject
It's partly as the fandom has changed across the years and there are simply fewer writers available. Locating pinch hitters has become much harder than it was in previous years, even for a 5000-word story. Thanks for the various ideas - we'll take them on board with all the feedback. - cheers, Mific